Comments on Halushki: How To Have A More Civil Argument With A Democrati...

If I could have a nickel for every time I've put m...

2008-04-27T10:48:00.000-04:00

If I could have a nickel for every time I've put my foot in my mouth . . . I grew up in Michigan but moved away 35 years ago, love to visit but I'm still bitter . . . .

Beautiful post, thanks for putting it up.

I would pay cash money to hear that conversation t...

2008-04-23T23:16:00.000-04:00

I would pay cash money to hear that conversation take place. And I voted for him.

I would also pay cash money for a cold Yeungling right now and thank the good people of Pennsylvania for making such a thing possible.

Having grown up in Ohio - another state that suffe...

2008-04-19T21:33:00.000-04:00

Having grown up in Ohio - another state that suffers from being stereotyped - and being a Republican - a party that seems intent on stereotyping itself - I understand the objections to being painted with an overly broad brush.

As usual, you make me laugh and make me think.

I love a good book. No worries, and thanks for rea...

2008-04-18T12:32:00.000-04:00

I love a good book.

No worries, and thanks for reading me.

:-)

Hey there, thanks for replying :) It's so cool to ...

2008-04-18T11:46:00.000-04:00

Hey there, thanks for replying :) It's so cool to talk to you.

I see what you mean about sounding condescending, the way it was put.

That's not really quite the way I took it though. What I heard was more along the lines of, "well, people have been let down by politicians promising things for twenty or so years now, so yeah, they're frustrated and disappointed, so they will vote on the basis of other things....so how do we get beyond this, how do we win people back?"

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I like Obama pretty well and have liked him before this, so that may be a factor in the way I'm hearing this. I've also heard him speak in person, not at a private mtg or anything, but at a town hall type thing, so that might be a factor too.

Plus, I sort of think he has a point. "Bitter" isn't a word I'd have used, but I definitely remember watching Bill Clinton at the Dem convention back in 1992 (when I was on bedrest)and really liking his idea of universal healthcare. I especially related to the problems with healthcare access because I was about 7 months pregnant at the time. Now my son is 15 going on 16 and yeah I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't get that accomplished 15 years ago.

Umm, sorry didn't mean to write you a book. If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading.

Aurora B.

Aurora, yes, I do know what you mean.The unfortuna...

2008-04-18T10:21:00.000-04:00

Aurora, yes, I do know what you mean.

The unfortunate phrasing did just come across as stereotyping in that one sound bite.

However, just to be clear, I don't think that all people who vote on gun issues or who allow their religious beliefs or moral code to inform their voting decisions do so as one-issue voters, or do so from reactionary place. People are complex, and generally, I think it a more respectful bet to assume that the vote is coming from some place of self-awareness and thought-through decision making, and not assume that the Republican wedge is the reason. I think it's just hard to win people over by intimating that if they just thought about things a bit more or weren't so cynical, they'd stop voting the way they do and switch to "my side". There's just something off-putting and a bit condescending in that. The truth - as it is - can be presented in so many ways and still remain the truth. He was just caught with some bad word choice this go around.

And of course, that doesn't just come from Obama; it comes from all politicians to larger or smaller extents. He just happened to get caught in the media melee this time around. But, as with all the melee in this primary season, I think that there has been some silver-lining to all of it in the extended discussions and renewed energy in "saying it out loud" - I think that the candidates are being forced to tackle a lot of quiet "tapestry" issues that we have always just taken for granted as being unfortunate parts of the process/culture that we just put up with because we've gone as far as we could with tackling these issues as problems: race, sexism, truthiness, stereotypes of all sorts. It's exciting for me, as a Pennsylvanian, to have even a few people outside the state wonder "hey, what the heck IS going on in the hinterlands of PA? What is the truth there?" It's the silver lining.

Okay, I'm late to this, but please let me say, Joz...

2008-04-18T09:49:00.000-04:00

Okay, I'm late to this, but please let me say, Jozet you are amazing!

You pretty much just captured exactly how a lot of us feel.

That said, I know everybody's talking about the sound bite, but, in the whole of the speech, he was talking about how Republicans use the wedge issues, the cliched "God, Guns, and Gays" to attract voters to the Republican party. He was more talking about guns and religion as voting issues, than as actual factors in peoples' lives, kwim?

Aurora B.

This is classic! I love it! Bitter, no...Angry, He...

2008-04-17T22:21:00.000-04:00

This is classic! I love it! Bitter, no...Angry, Heck yeah! ;)

Great post, Jozet! You rock the blog, babe.

2008-04-16T13:01:00.000-04:00

Great post, Jozet! You rock the blog, babe.

That settles it:Halushki is officially endorsing a...

2008-04-16T11:44:00.000-04:00

That settles it:

Halushki is officially endorsing anonymous for President.

Campaign slogan:

"Not pissed on.
Pissed OFF!"

very good post j. although truth be told, i am bit...

2008-04-16T11:29:00.000-04:00

very good post j. although truth be told, i am bitter. i'm bitter about a corrupt government who tramples on our civil rights, just because they seem to be able to. i'm bitter about american corporations who give 8 figure bonuses to ceos who destroy the companies they run, but somehow manage to show profits by manipulating facts and figures. i'm bitter about the national media who does their best to keep the populus miss-informed. i'm bitter about the destruction of our environment for profit. i'm bitter about the campaign process that wastes hundreds of millions of dollars that could be much better spent. i'm bitter about american pop culture. i'm bitter about reality tv. i'm bitter about alot, but as you pointed out, every one of these 9 times i've used the word bitter, it could easily be replaced with the words "pissed off". so of course i'm pissed off, that i keep using the word bitter instead of simply saying," these people are really pissing me off"

Although Halushki has not formally announced suppo...

2008-04-16T07:55:00.000-04:00

Although Halushki has not formally announced support for any candidate over another at this time, look to the candidate with the best proposal for universal health care and who deposits a case of Yuengling lager on Madame Jozet's front doorstep.

A case of TastyKakes would also go over well.

Hmmm, I'm guessing that Obama isn't getting your v...

2008-04-16T07:10:00.000-04:00

Hmmm, I'm guessing that Obama isn't getting your vote. No one should be without the protection of a comma, ever. So, come on everybody, let's practice safe English. :)

Mmmmm... I miss TastyKakes. Can you send me a few ...

2008-04-15T23:15:00.000-04:00

Mmmmm... I miss TastyKakes. Can you send me a few of the chocolate cupcakes?

This is the funniest political post I've read in a...

2008-04-15T20:03:00.000-04:00

This is the funniest political post I've read in a long time. Hee!

TastyKakes, Yuengling, how can you all be bitter when you've got those wonderful things?

I know what you mean. And I know you know. You kno...

2008-04-15T07:47:00.000-04:00

I know what you mean.

And I know you know. You know?

He needs to hire you to check his speeches and may...

2008-04-15T07:26:00.000-04:00

He needs to hire you to check his speeches and maybe kick him every time he says something he may regret.

I hesitate to comment on politicial issues, but th...

2008-04-15T00:40:00.000-04:00

I hesitate to comment on politicial issues, but that was a great post and deserves a nod.

So...Boy, he sure stepped in it there, didn't he?

I dunno...every time I start to think he might be okay and that I was judging him too harshly...he does something to disillusion me. He's got me all a tither, dammit.

But, ummmm.... he has a good vocabulary?

Hey, we're always accepting applications if you wa...

2008-04-14T21:13:00.000-04:00

Hey, we're always accepting applications if you want to come over to the Dark Side. This is actually a good year to do it, since a) the democratic candidates keep saying dumb stuff and b) McCain is really a democrat anyway.
We'd love to have you!

You go girl! GREAT blog.Personally, I'm waiting un...

2008-04-14T16:38:00.000-04:00

You go girl! GREAT blog.

Personally, I'm waiting until after the Democratic National Convention before I start pontificating on any of the hub-bub.

Fantastic piece, Jozet! I can't comment further ...

2008-04-14T16:25:00.000-04:00

Fantastic piece, Jozet!

I can't comment further or PSoTD might kick me off the blog for Obama-bashing. He's not from Pennsylvania and doesn't understand. :)

I just love that he didn't make the "I was tired" ...

2008-04-14T13:15:00.000-04:00

I just love that he didn't make the "I was tired" excuse for his words, like Hilary did when she "mispoke" about Bosnia. He's said a lot of good words so far, and as far as slip-ups go, this one's being torn completely apart because he makes so few slip-ups.

I think that being righteously angry is much better than being bitter. But I'm going to try and refrain from being bitter.

I agree that context is important, but I thought I...

2008-04-14T13:10:00.000-04:00

I agree that context is important, but I thought I'd just address the sound bite since that's what's on loop right now.

Here's a bit more of the speech - albeit not all - here.

A Little More

I think that one of the most important things that he said, one of the most true about what I know of Pennsylvanians - having lived in both downtown Philly for years, and in a coal mining backwater, and now in the somewhat hoity-toity suburbs of state capital - is this:

"...there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing."

I think it's an oversimplification to stereotype any stratum or group of Pennsylvanians - or any people - and pick a two-dimensional characterization to represent what will never be the whole. As soon as a stereotype is presented - no matter that voting records or statistics or myriad anecdotes may support the stereotype - I think that almost immediately people become defensive about being put in a pigeon-hole which may recognize one set of associated issues and concerns, but that can then also possibly serve to discount or push aside other facets of their personality, in this case, other community concerns/issues/needs.

I think it reads a bit of a passive threat as soon as anyone says "you mostly do this, you are mostly this way"; the knee-jerk response as well as the further thought out response is usually "but wait a second - I'm all these other things, too."

It's an impossible proposition for a politician to campaign to every facet of every individual. And I do understand that the guns/religion comment came by way of explanation and not as some sort of declaration of strategy. But for a state that is feeling a bit "picked last at dodge ball" anyway due to the confounded ways of the primary schedule, and now maybe wondering a bit whether the king and queen of the prom really wanted to dance with them or if there's also some truth or dare game going on, well, maybe some of us were a little on edge wondering if we're really just getting to dance due to a dare. So, yeah, maybe some of us are a little skeptical or a little raw around the edges still when it comes to all three candidates and what they think they know about us, even if we do at the same time agree about being bitter or angry.

I will say that for the more uncertain feel of the paragraph I just quoted, it does actually make me feel more at ease. (Because it's all about me, don't you know.) When it comes to defining others and our notions of who they are, there are times - some times - when "I really just don't know" is a most hopeful indicator. I'm all Kumbaya like that. My husband, on the other hand, is probably rolling his eyes right out of his head at this touchy-feely let's all join hands hogwash of mine, but that's why I let him do all my voting for me, especially when I'm all hormonal and PMSing.

Just kidding. ;-)

I do think reading the entire text of the speech l...

2008-04-14T11:44:00.000-04:00

I do think reading the entire text of the speech lends some context to the sound bite.

That said, it would be great if he ended up with a copy of your speech--I'm sure you've said (with great pizazz) what a lot of Pennsylvanians would like to say.

I am the VERY FIRST person to admit to putting my ...

2008-04-14T11:40:00.000-04:00

I am the VERY FIRST person to admit to putting my foot in my mouth so regularly that there's a nice groove worn along the sides of my cheeks from some of my pointier shoes.

That said, - I just can't crucify him for saying "bitter" when he ought to have said "righteously angry."

And all we have is the audio and one blogger's account of the event. Well, aside from Glennia's, and she was there and has also experienced what she's described as a similar sense of upset re: her family's experiences in small-town Ohio. Her take was that he conveyed an understanding. Or at least I *think* that's what she was saying.

Meanwhile, you've made me think (damn you, woman! *shakes fist*) and take a second look at a subject I'd already kind of decided I understood, and I'm glad of that.

You're so smart it makes my the grooves in my cheeks ache.